I'm assuming I could fight for seven minutes straight under those conditions taking out one kid every five seconds before getting done in. So, I could take out 84 five year olds.

I once fought seven two minute rounds without any breaks in between against fresh black belts during my purple belt test. This was when I was in my prime, so I figure I could fight and move for half of that amount of time since I haven't trained in a while. It was one on one but they were adult black belts.

The key here is that five year olds wouldn't learn shit from their training. I've seen five year olds play soccer. And I've seen five year old martial arts students, they're no better off than other five year olds.

Another tactical consideration is that there's a limit to how many of them can hurt you at once. They'll crowd each other.

And I think they'd have to stick to biting to do any damage. Given their height the only real danger is being bit in the groin.

Protect your package. Keep your weak hand away from their mouths. And punch them on the top of their little five year old heads. Oh, wait, I just re-read about the protective cup. I still stand by my number.

I think you're being a bit optimistic. How much does the average 5 year-old weigh? Now multiply that by 84. Ok, so they couldn't all jump you at once, but I think sheer weight of numbers would drag you down. Plus, once they start clinging to your arms and legs, you're going to have a hard time hitting any of them. Also, while they individually couldn't hit you very hard, if they got you down and started kicking you, I think you could be in trouble. Plus, they could always gouge your eyes as well.

They won't be able to gouge because they can't reach up past stomach level.

And probably no more than three or four at a time could hang from your legs with all of their weight. You'd have to lock your knees if they go for that tactic.

You can't let your arms drop for them to grab onto. Keep your elbows up and punch downwards.

Again, there are the specifics of the training they get. One day. They're not Tucker's kobolds, they're not that organized. Even if they're fearless their tactics are going to suck with just one day of training.

And you forgot how I've always fought against five year olds. See, these kids are "out" once they're knocked unconscious, but not if they're blinded. I'll be gouging the eyes of the ones I want to keep close, blinded, and disoriented, but still conscious.

My human shield of impaired five year olds.

I still think you're being optimistic.

First, they'll gouge your eyes when they get you down on the ground.

Second, while only a few could hold onto your legs, once they get you, I suspect the others would pile on top of them, and eventually they'd topple you with their combined weight.

Third, I don't think you'd be able to keep your hands away from them for that long. Again, with the sheer numbers, I think that as you punched one, a bunch of others would grab you. You might shake some of them off, but while you do, others would be grabbing your other arms, your legs, and so on. You can't focus on everything at once.

And fourth, training doesn't even enter into it. I think even without training, just so long as you take away the fear (which we have for this hypothetical situation), they're still going to mob you. A pack of wild dogs doesn't have training after all.

And no, I didn't forget about how you you've always fought against five-year olds. However, the hypothetical situation does not allow for the wearing of clown suits...

I think the difference in our opinion here has to do with the value of fighting without fear and the value of fighting without training.

My assumption is that their one day of training is worthless. They're as good as completely untrained.

I'm assuming my one hour of training negates whatever advantage their initial rush is. I don't get bowled over from their initial charge. Instead, I'm assuming they'll crowd from all sides rather than being organized enough to do anything effective with momentum from just one side.

I hold to the notion that the disadvantage of zero training far outweighs the advantage of zero fear.

Regardless of morale, they're not going to have their shit together enough to work effectively together. They're five, a good number of them don't know how to tie their own shoes, let alone do anything with group tactics. And they don't hunt for food for a living so I'm not accepting any comparisons to animals. It'll be like fighting six of them at a time (two in front, two in back, one on each side). The others will just crowd each other and be flopping around with their weak little arms.

I'm thinking that the constraint will be from getting winded rather than being dragged down or wounded. We were talking about this at lunch and looking at the clock. Five seconds is a long time between hits. I'm thinking in the first minute or two I'm cracking one of these little bastards every two or three seconds. I'd definitely have to keep my elbows up and punch downwards.

Damn it, why couldn't it be six year olds? The sounds of crushing their spines are so much more satisfying.

By the way, Manhunt had a similar scenario that you could unlock, but it was you against three pairs of opposing gang members who got replaced whenever one of them went down. They'd fight you if you they could but if they were too far away sometimes they'd fight each other. This mode goes on until you drop. Let me know if you want to play it sometime.

Hey, do you think we could make a card game out of this? I'll sign over the rights to the name "Kindergarten of Blood" if you like it.

Like I said, I don't think tactics or training even comes into it. I think you're just vastly underestimating just how big of a number 84 is. You see it as fighting six at a time. I see it like fighting a wave. In fact, I think lack of tactics might actually work in their favor. They'll just rush you in a big mob, rather than try anything clever, and take you down with their mass. Really, your only hope is if they don't rush you. If they stay spread out, you can use your own weight and speed to bowl them over. But my guess is that they would mob you.

I do agree, however, that the potential for a card game is intriguing.

That's why I limited myself to six. They each weigh 30-50 lbs, I reckon. With two on each leg and one on each arm, you're more or less stuck in place. Add a few more, and they're climbing on top of each other to get to your face (nothing in the above parameters says they wouldn't hurt each other to get to you.) And anyone who's been in Chuck E. Cheese on a Saturday afternoon will tell you those kids are fast, resilient, and stronger than you think.

geek...

And that's in a wide-open field, too.

Honestly, I wouldn't go any more than about six, because if they all rush you at once, they will knock you down (can't put your back to the wall) and once you're down, they can beat your face. A few eye gouges from those grubby little fingers, and... I don't want to think about it.

Aw, c'mon your LIFE is at stake here. If you rush to meet them in the middle, you can take them out one at a time while you back peddle and circle around them. You could probably take out six of them before they surround you.

I figure you could take out the first dozen or so just with withering scorn and biting sarcasm.

I'm going to say about 30.

The way I figure it - if they've received one day's combat training, I assure you that at least three quarters of the group (once they see that only 5 or 6 of them can effectively attack me at one time) will turn on each other, anxious to show off what they learned. Most of them will still be in that awkward, growing phase; all hurricanes of spindly arms and wheedly legs - so chances are good at least half the group will knock themselves - or each other - out, straight ouf og the gate. This leaves roughly fifteen to climb up on me, kicking, screaming, biting like monkeys.

Oh - and talking. Five years olds have the distinct advantage of not being able to breathe; anyone whose heard them discourse on dinosaurs or pop music can tell you this is true.

Unable (and possibly unwilling) to follow simple rules - at least five of those kids will touch, lean against, and otherwise get their filthy, bloodstained handprints over the newly painted white wall - and since touching the wall is out out of the rules - that's five more out.

So me vs. 10 kids:

Let's assume one had attached itself to my back, and is eating my hair...and furthermore there is one clinging like creeping ivy to each arm and each leg....so long as I can remain standing, I can use those kids as effective body armor against the remaining five.

When those five kids then fall - I suggest a game of "Who can be the most quiet and still the longest." This will only fool them for about 30 seconds (it's the longest I've ever seen it work, anyway) - which will be just enough time for me to catch my breath. When I see they are on to me - I'll say "Right - that was a dumb game. Instead let's see who can run around the longest, and scream the loudest."

A game at which I will allow them to beat me - until they are so dizzy and hoarse and tired, that none of them will argue when I declare "naptime." I'll lay them down, I'll lullaby, and yes, I'll even cuddle them if they want; because once they are all "unconcious" in dreamland I'll be declared the winner and I can get out of that pit and kick the ass of whomever pitted me against an angry mob of five-year-olds to begin with.

I don't care what Dave says.

Heh.

Personally though, I think you could probably take on 30 of them in a straight fight, without all those shenanigans. I was looking at the thread on this topic from the original source, and someone suggested grabbing one and using it as a weapon against the others. That seems like an interesting tactic. But anyway, it's not that I think a mob of 5 year olds are particularly strong or good at fighting, it's just that when you get enough of them, I think they win by sheer weight of numbers.

Gee, Dave - I'm touched you think I could take on 30 5-year olds in a fist fight, shenanigan-free. I'm guessing you're probably right - but all-in-all- I prefer shennanigans.

And I agree - weight of numbers is a concern - but I just don't seem them being all that organized about it.

:) thanks.

I'll only take 10.

First I'd tell then that Santa isn't real. That should get them 1.really angry or 2.upset. In either case they won't be focused and I'll kick them in the crotch.

Repeat the process using the easter bunny tooth fairy and great pumpkin.

Rinse.

Repeat.

You're like the Sun Tzu of kicking 5-year old ass.

you all have no chance in hell

I know there is a HUGE difference between 5 and 8 years old... but let me fill y'all in on a little thing called ADD or better yet ADHD

and there is this strange fucked up phenomenon that I like to refer to as "mothers in denial" or "mothers that think they are smarter than doctors". these stupid women are so obsessed with the opinion that their little ankle biters are perfect, that they are taking their kids off their prescribed medication!! yes you heard me. Now this very morning I had the lucky pleasure of working with my favorite ADHD infected 8 year old. His mother thought it would be a good idea to prove to her husband, mother, and the kid's doctor and teacher, that her son does not need rittalin (or whatever these kids are on these days) so she cut his pill in half....

now AFTER i tell you what happened today, try to imagine what could happen if he was totally off his meds... Daniel was so whacked out today that he acted like Paris Hilton being told to get out of bed before 9am! i mean it. he actually told me and my class's teacher "NO!" and he fought with me over a damn library book, to the point where he was grabbing at me and pulling the book from my hands. Now obviously I can hold on to a book and stand rigid and glare down to him with fire in my eyes (which is what I did -not that it got him to stop) But I had to chase this kid around a table to get a hold of him... Trust me, these kids can squirm and wiggle their little asses off to get away from you!

i took him to the Principal's office, where what that meant didn't even phase him. He jumped around the office like a mexican jumping bean on speed. Then my teacher came in to take him to the class room. He said no! and followed me back into the library for more table chasing and book pulling. She finally got a hold of him and I hear later that he pulled a pair of scissors on her.

She got another student to get his stuff and he was out! She called his mother and she came to get him.. Does this woman really think she is so smart now??

moral of the story:
no matter what the age, these fuckers can talk, shout, scream and cry all at the same time, and their brains do not require oxygen. (multiply that by any number greater than 10 and you just wouldn't survive) spindly legs and arms -yes.. but sharp nails and sharper teeth! The squirming and wiggling is a biggie too, and there seems to be this advantage to their shortness. They are speedy little devils and the oh so famous circle running and meanering that they can accomplish with their little legs are really quite amazing skills. And on that part, the younger the better... seems the older you get the more you lose your ability to meander.

Do not underestimate the power of children. they are so strong. in ways we as adults are no longer capable of. in a gang, ADD or not, I'd be so busy covering my ears from the shrill noise that I'd have no power to fight back. and yes they would hang from your legs and arms and elbows.

Yes they would trample each other to get to you, yes they would trample themselves to fight each other and yes the training would be (MOSTLY) useless. But some of them would only remember the key things that would cause the most harm to the adult

oi, I pity the fool that thinks age is power. And I implore you to sit in a lunch room for 5 minutes one day. good luck!

(to Daniel's credit, he knew he was doing wrong, but he just could not help it. Earlier in the day today, I pulled him aside and whispered to him that he was acting out of control. i asked him what he was going to do about it and he replied that he knew he had to try to get a hold of himself. But that he just could not get it together. He is a good kid, just jumpy and anxious. He really for the most part, can not control his behavior and bodily movements. I feel bad for him and any kid with ADD or ADHD)

I had a feeling you might have some unique insights on this hypothetical question.

However, in all fairness, much of your problem with Daniel seems to stem from the fact that, by law, you aren't allowed to beat him into unconsciousness, whereas, in this hypothetical question, that's precisely the point.